Panos Panay on why Microsoft is using Android for its Duo device

Panos Panay's chief product officer, Vergecast, joined Verge Nilay Patel, editor and editor Tom Warren. Microsoft Surface hardware events that talk about the new Surface lineup, including the upcoming dual-screen devices.

Panay also explains why Microsoft is using Android in the future of Duo devices, their relationship with Google, and the future of the Surface Neo / Duo form factor. Below is a slightly edited conversation.

Nilay Patel: Microsoft Chief Product Officer Panos Panay Welcome to The Vergecast .

Panos Panay: Thank you. It is better to be here.

NP: Thank you for coming.

I love you

NP: Today is a good day.

We had a fun day The team had a great day.

NP: I'd like to talk about Surface Duo, but I also released a lot of other things.

Yes.

NP: Here are my plans. I will tell you the names of some products you have announced. And you give a sentence about them. NP: Surface Pro 7.

Super powerful. Everyone's favorite product.

NP: Surface Laptop [3] 13 [inches].

The most beautiful thing that keeps an eye on notebooks is

NP: Surface Laptop [3] 15 [inches].

Competition with 13 for beauty, but it's the best in terms of performance.

NP: That's great. Ready Amazing.

I love you

NP: I didn't expect you to be really crunchy.

Obviously, I don't prepare anything. I do not have time. I just need to show up and tell me what I'm thinking of. I'm not sure what's going to happen.

NP: Surface [Ear] buds.

Killer audio. Amazing audio. The translation hurts. NP: When you translate such things in PowerPoint, it's an explosion.

NP: It's amazing that you announced true wireless headphones, and the killer use case is like "PowerPoint".

. Are you kidding me?

NP: The best Microsoft product I've ever heard.

It was still good. Can't explain. Say whatever you want It was not Microsoft. All have headphones. All have earbuds. Go ahead and ask what you want about Earbud. They are amazing.

NP: What I really want to talk about is [Surface] Pro X, Neo and Duo. The other ones are really interesting. That's why I wanted to mention everything.

The heart of the product line and the way people use it today. We talk about where people are today and meet there. Then we talk about how the team works and how to get to where people go. It then lands and acquires the product when it arrives. And I think you are talking about where Neo and Duo will be a product. I think Pro X is to push people a bit technically. And other products are what you need right now.

NP: Obviously the earbuds are new, but others seem to have improved very carefully what people already like.

There are a lot. The laptop is now repairable but the same product. No screws, no pitfalls. It's a big problem for commercial customers and you may even want to replace the keyboard etc. We can do it very easily. So I will buy and care for you when we talk about the object of this desire, if you want, and what makes it precious [that].

But in general we think we are very diligent. Do not let anyone open or repair it. We do not want to do that. It was how the design was combined. And now, we've been very diligent in history and learning, and we're a bit more mature about how organizations, teams, and how to create more inclusive products. So you start seeing it on your laptop. NP: We talk about this every time, so let me ask you one question about Pro 7. I can guess what it is. . There is USB-C. You did it.

I don't even know why we want to talk about it.

NP: Why Should I Choose USB-C Over Thunderbolt?

Tom Warren: Is it because of Surface Connect?

Yes, you can use Surface Connect. Surface Connect, especially power plant customers, gives you everything you need from your product. There are tradeoffs when designing something, such as performance, battery, and thinking about thickness. And the last day, if I hadn't, I thought it would come to this Vergecast and you would do nothing but complain.

And now you are still complaining. Now I don't know what to do

NP: This is our role in the market.

You do something awesome. You are good at this too.

NP: Let's talk about Pro X. ARM. You are making your own chip, the Surface SQ1 chip. We have a partnership with Qualcomm. When Twitter said “What do people want to know?” The first question I got was about app support. How should people expect app support to work with ARM-based Windows on their devices?

That's a good question. Therefore, the Windows team has done some phenomenal work, especially because of this product. In the future, we talk a lot about how to make silicones or create products that will boost the entire ecosystem and make sure that we are making the right investments across Microsoft. In this team, which is a Windows team, the work I've done to run all my apps using emulation technology is pretty good.

NP: Can you get everything?

You can get everything. I mean, there are a few things you don't get. If you want to use a product or app you can't get or software you can't get, you probably don't want Pro X anyway. That's not your product. So for anyone who wants to use that product, everything is there. Google Chrome launches. Chrome is one of the first things to consider when launching a product. If you don't run Chrome first, there's an immediate response. iTunes is another.

NP: Get Chrome I can't say I understand iTunes. I've told you many times, but it's amazing.

It's actually true. I'm just looking at the data and it's a good product in many ways. It's a great product. One of the product spirits is, "Hey, where are our customers?" So Android: Where are your customers and how do you support them?

NP: Who do you think is the Pro X customer?

You know, we have a lot of cool words to talk about. We designed it for the mobile professionals who made it technically advanced. That's all because it's a great product if you're focusing on technology and want a bit of the latest technology. It's really cool If you share a train, bus, plane or car ride, anyone who likes to work in the park or Starbucks is a mobile user for me. They use the product everywhere.

NP: Obviously, with a Qualcomm processor, you'll always be connected and have built-in connectivity, and you'll get a lot of things the ARM platform can do.

NP: Is that what caused you to make ARM, or is it something else you couldn't do with x86?

No, there are many things. It's not a single variable, check the box and say "No." It works on the fly. No, it isn't

One of the important things is how to push the form factor forward. If so, how do you manage the device's power profile [performance]? And it dictates how thin you can push it and how many batteries you need to put. The battery is basically a function of size. The bigger it is, the longer the battery life. The larger it is, the larger the heavier the device. How to optimize the entire product line and then provide the best screen? Because there is a place where the tradeoffs have begun.

The larger the screen, the higher the number of pixels. Theoretically, the brighter the screen, the more damage your battery will have. The longer the battery life, the thicker the battery. And now you are at a compromise between weight and thickness. What we are doing in the 2-in-1 category is to advance that category. This means longer battery life and makes the product thinner, lighter and faster. It's not a complicated equation. It's hard to solve, but it's not hard to understand what people need or want. And this chip does everything.

TW: Do you think you will reach this kind of tradeoff on this small design and Intel side?

Intel is doing an amazing job but I think a little differently for every product. That's right. What Intel does is an amazing partner with us. They have had a wonderful experience in partnering and designing chipsets together.

I think diversity is great in the silicone world. In general, let customers choose. Fine. But in the end, people want to buy Surface, so what's the right product? What's the best chip to make it? And I think SQ1 is an amazing development for many reasons.

NP: Why do you make your own?

Because I want to design from scratch. When we step, here's the product, here's what we want to offer, here's what we're going through. There are two design points we wanted to hit.

Have a conversation with the Qualcomm leader. "Let's do it."

NP: What's the biggest of the missing products on the shelf?

It was a combination of several things, but it was virtually impossible before the thickness reached 5.3mm in all performance.

NP: This leads to the duo.

A big leap forward.

NP: I received a segue.

I'm surprised. NP: You only hear when you literally feel like you've constructed a segue.

NP: I want to talk about Duo.

I think I want to talk about & # 39; m. duo. Here is my lead "

NP: I'm sitting in front of me and mocking me.

It's not my fault.

NP: I have a Snapdragon 855 in the duo. Why is there no SQ1? On top of that? The design point of the SQ1 is not a mobile processor, I'll clarify that for you, the mobile processor will push two and three watts, perhaps two and a half. To go to SQ1, push it to 7/7 and when you're working through it, it's now part of the PC architecture

The mobile architecture hasn't actually moved to the PC. There's no PC architecture-based product, that's what SQ1 does. It can push two 4K displays at 60Hz simultaneously on mobile. It's impossible, but you can do it on SQ1, so the idea that all the IO works and Surface Connect can push what people expect from Surface is that part.

NP: You think it's not the phone, you're thinking You're telling Wireline 's friend Lauren Goode that it's not a phone, it looks like a phone. It shows you the phone, of course you can call people

Yes, of course, look, it's a good phone It doesn't mean "not a phone". And say "well, smartphone" I don't know what that means, and I'm not sure what that is, but everything has an identifying factor, and when I start Surface, people say, "It's a tablet." Not a tablet Surface. ”I don't know what to do. I'm trying to categorize a category and put it here.

I think you have to change things and try to move forward to create a new category. It seems like I got lost as soon as I put it in the box so I resisted it quite a bit. Not because it doesn't work like a great phone.

NP: Will not be released for one year. 2020 vacation. It took a year to figure out how people use it.

Yes.

NP: Right now —

But Pro X comes to everyone who is listening right now. . So, there is a delta.

NP: That's right. And the bigger neo-

two holidays are in 2020.

NP: Dual Screen is Holiday 2020.

Yes, this category reveals the year 2020. Ok. That's a good way.

NP: That's funny. Lastly, I remember that we had a very lively discussion about the Galaxy Fold. I thought using plastic screens was a pretty silly design decision.

I really do not remember that. I did not say so. There may be, but I do not remember.

NP: A good wife is fine! It was a pretty dumb design decision at that time. They're back but it's like a first generation that can be folded in different ways. I'm making two screens with hinges and I think that after a year from now I actually start taking off.

I think so. Yes. We have seen what dual screen use brings and tested thousands of scenarios with thousands of people. We measure many different things. We measure brain activity. We measure people's feelings. We have thousands of questions, and we have an amazing user research team, human factor team from a comprehensive design perspective. Think about how everyone uses this device, no matter who you are. Yes I am 100% sure at this point. As I said, I think it's a bold statement, but I really believe where this category can go. I hope. NP: History of technology: Microsoft was the dominant operating system vendor, the dominant platform vendor. The form factor has moved to mobile. Entry Point Created [for others]. We saw how it went. Do you think the 2020 holiday is a form factor transition to dual screens that will allow Microsoft to return to the mobile market?

I don't think that will happen so quickly. I do not think so fast. I think it begins. I started to understand how productive and creative it can be on both Windows and Android. NP consistency, no matter what operating system you use, I still think you can be more productive with two screens.

NP: But do you think people will buy this product on behalf of a cell phone? [19659096] Yes, some people think. Others will want it because it is cool. There is certainly something attractive. And I think people will replace the phone. [some] People think they will buy this device as a second device and think it works well in both ways.

NP: Please talk about Android. How about working with Google? What about the relationship? Is this a Play Store device?

Yes, of course. Of course Google search. Also search bing. Pretty cool. There is a great concept between the two companies.

TW: But why Android?

Okay. Because it's the app they want. NP: It's simple?

I don't know how to get another answer. Yes. Because there are hundreds of thousands of apps and there are apps you want. [Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella] I'm talking about it and meeting customers with their location and location. I don't think a mobile application platform will be released anytime, anywhere, it's very simple. I'm not smart either. Literally, it's like Tom. Requires app

Now how do developers see APIs that will be across platforms and how do they think about 360-degree hinges? How can I reveal xCloud in a product that has a game on one side and controls on the other? This is how the two screens interact when you open two apps. You can see the power of NP very quickly.

NP: He is mocking us by showing us the device right now.

So can you just see it? What should I do if I see the mail sent and need to copy something and drag it to the last app? Such a situation is a complex task that always requires a transition. It works fast on this product.

If you open your calendar, many things happen. I have a calendar and I want to display it between the two screens. You see it happen there. Try calendar snaps on my favorite seams. Congratulations on this seam. It's huge. Because you actually place your app in layers or structures [them]. This structural thinking happens, the brain brightens and things get easier. Pretty cool.

What can happen and the current developer is in a situation where the developer can't do a little bit of what he can create or do. That's what we expect.

Therefore, we launched our product today, which is not an interesting decision. We did not do that. I don't know how. We are learning humbly. We are learning You may not know what we did right or wrong, but we want to inspire developers.

NP: How much do you think the product will change between now and 2020?

No change at all. How long have we been designing this hardware, feet [Kyriacou, GM of Microsoft devices]? Three years? We've been about three and a half hours. Long time no see. And I think you know it. You unpacked me a few times with your incredible spy skills or what you have.

NP: Report. It is called reporting.

Oh, see you.

NP: That's it.

Gez, I missed it. Do people curse The Vergecast ? NP: Yeah, stupid ah.

Okay. thank. I'm checking it now.

NP: There is no FCC here.

I'm almost there. NP: You almost got me.

NP: Historically, there have been many companies that want to use Android and build their software experience. Historically, they would say that they are not as good at Microsoft as software or are as good at design as Microsoft. And Google withdrew them. Do you want Google to be able to build your own Android experience?

I do not think this is a "letter" conversation at all. I think this is a collaborative conversation. I think what we did with the conversation we did was really cool. Like, you can see it If you go back to one screen, slide it over here to see and check it out. Here is Google search. Here is the full Microsoft feed.

Hiroshi [Lockheimer, head of Android at Google] I sat down. We had this conversation: “Behold, here is a vision. We want to make the most of Microsoft on Android as people know it. ”So the idea wasn't. If you look here, you can see the app launcher displayed just like on Android. telephone. Then pull down from the top to see the settings. As if you aren't trying to be NP —

NP: But its setting looks a bit different from the standard. You have completed some design work.

Of course there are some. There is design work, but that's what you know. Surface.

TW: Is it like an extension to Microsoft Launcher [for Android]?

The launcher team is a big part of this program. They are wonderful. You can think a bit like that. Do not put the launcher on top. It's not like that. However, the launcher team does a lot of work by bringing together cloud-connected experiences. Really cool Very cool. You can't give too much and you won't give too much.

TW: What are Microsoft and Google giving and receiving? Can you see Google search integrated into Windows?

I won't talk about it today, Tom. Not rude, but just … I think there are a lot. Do not give up. That's not my word but in the sense of our relationship it's a building. Very deep rooted and partnered. This is the best way. I don't think it's free.

What is the right product for humans? I feel so. I think that's how Google does it, so it's like that. Still, people think that they will like it. That's why NP: Satya Nadella said today that the Windows operating system is no longer important. Apps and services. Microsoft has moved the entire business there. What do you think about Android? Create a full Windows device line. What do you think of them as complements? How will they tie together? Or is android the future for you?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm trying to provide what the customer wants in the form factor they're using. Something like "let's insert …" would be stupid. We learned this. Choose "Wrong operating system, correct operating system on wrong product" or other words.

But what operating system is suitable for the form factor? In this case, Android is the obvious choice for mobile devices. But on top of that, Windows is everything. Excellent in product design I promise not to sound arrogant, this place came from a humble place, but my belief in Windows is very strong and there is something that can be achieved through it.

How the OS disappears in the background at Satya's point of view, Microsoft thinks it does a good job. NP: You have Windows 10X for Neo, a dual screen version [of Windows].

Yes. Windows.

NP: No other form factors? Is it dual screen only?

Think like this. Right Now, is for dual screen. I think it's hard to use the word & # 39; exclusive & # 39; right now. Too Early We are learning and believe that this is part of the company's growth thinking. There is a filter.

I'll listen There is time. We'll almost hear what the developer says. We have been researching our products for 3 years. Long time no see. It is blurry. But yes, learn through this process. It is a big part of product making. It is not a mistake to learn. We will take the time to do it right. I would like to tell you the form factor you are looking at. Just hold it to feel it.

NP: Yes, please.

Please feel the hinge. I think form factor is the third generation form factor. “This is the first generation. It might work. ” We are literally in the third generation of that hinge, the third generation of that screen. Our partner is incredible. The way we incorporate gorilla glass has all failed. Now how do we perfect our interaction model and connect with our developers? So we came out today.

NP: How fast can developers cope with this problem?

I know. We are working to ensure the stability of our products, from build to build. And the way the hardware works will probably take a few more months. They will run hand in hand. NP: maximum speed.

Yes. Just publish your API and make sure it's ready.

NP: How much is that price? I will —

I will not speak.

NP: Are you happy or not happy?

Super happy.

NP: Please explain my feelings in the future.

You will rejoice [NP:I'mglad

Yes. I think you are pumping pretty about it. I. If you are using 3rd generation hardware, it seems you are already pushing the boundaries of silicon. It's pushing the boundaries on how this works and how antennas are connected. When I say happy, I think the value of the product you get for the amount you pay, is there and that's important to your customers.

NP: The last question is a big idea about form factors. Size, operating system.

Example:

NP: Proficient in tablets.

Yes.

NP: I am good at laptops.

Yes.

NP: Google is very good at mobile phones.

Yep.

NP: That's fine for laptops.

Okay.

NP: terrible on tablets.

Okay. NP: You guys are really good at laptops. I really use Surface devices that look like tablets.

예, 좋습니다. NP : 역사적으로 전화가 좋지 않습니다.

제품을 만들 때 그렇게 생각하지 않지만 원하는 방식으로 식별합니다.

NP : 연결해야하는 간극이 있습니다 : Surface, 휴대 전화 및 태블릿. 이것이 둘 다에 대한 구멍을 채우는 것입니까 [Microsoft and Google]? 더 나은 태블릿 경험을 얻습니까?

아, 흥미 롭습니다.

— 모바일의 진입 점입니까?

예, 아니요. 나는 그렇게 생각하지 않습니다. 실제로 그렇게 복잡하지 않다고 생각합니다. 이론적으로는 좋은 지적이지만, 그런 식으로 생각한 것은 확실하지 않습니다.

NP : 내가 볼 수 있기 때문에 … 내년에 이것을 내 놓으면 잘됩니다. [19659173] 하나님, 당신이 옳기를 바랍니다.

NP : 그리고 더 큰 것을 만드세요? 네오에 맞서 싸우는 약간 큰 것입니다.

예, 모르겠습니다. 내 로드맵을 볼 수 있습니다. 나는 3 년 후에 그것을 볼 수 있고, 나는“비젼을 가졌다”는 것이 아닙니다. 나는 육체적으로 그것을 볼 수있는 로드맵입니다. 우리는이 제품들을 반복해서 가지고 있습니다. 당신이 말하는 것은 내가보고있는 곳이 아니라고 생각합니다.

일과가 끝날 무렵, Windows가 제대로 작동하고 있습니다. 말 그대로이 기기보다 더 큰 것은 놀랍습니다. 이제 Neo와 Duo 사이에 더 큰 것이 붙어 있다고 생각합니다. 더 큰 말을하면 2.9 인치보다 작은 것이 보이지 않으며 이보다 큰 것이 보이지 않습니다. 이 제품을 선택했을 때 문자 그대로 몇 년 동안 화면 크기를 살펴 보았습니다. 옳은 일이 무엇입니까?

다른 제품을 식별했습니다. 사람들이 좋아하는 것이어야합니다. 결국 우리는 사람들이 무엇을해야하는지, 올바른 크기는 무엇이며, 우리가 할 수있는 가장 큰 것은 무엇입니까? 그리고 나는 일종의 옥시 모론처럼 들리지만 그것이 추진력이라는 것을 알고 있습니다.

우리는 가장 큰 제품이 모바일 공간에서 존재할 수있는 곳의 디자인 포인트를 발견했습니다. 그것이 내가 믿는 것입니다. 그래서 내가 틀릴 수있는 곳이라고 말하지만 로드맵을보고 있다고 말하지만 이보다 더 큰 것은보고 있지 않습니다. 나는 로드맵을 공유하지 않습니다.

NP : 우리는 계속 노력하고 있습니다.

시도해 보았습니다 … 당신의보고, 감시, 그것이 무엇이든간에, 때때로 똥을 식별합니다. 그리고 그것은 단지 나를 미치게합니다. 나는 이틀 전에 누출에 정말 좌절했다. 여러분은 전혀 모릅니다.

NP : 좀 더 말씀해주세요.

누수가 생겨서“무슨 일이 일어 났습니까? 무슨 일이 있었나요?”기본적으로 랩탑 누출, Surface Pro 누출, Surface Pro X 누출. 이 세 가지 제품이 유출되었습니다. 나는 팀을 자랑스럽게 생각했다. 나는 모든 사람들이 그것을 다루는 방식을 자랑스럽게 생각했습니다.

NP : 당신은 무대에서“누수도 보았지만 한 순간 더 있습니다.”

[Mehdi]기본적으로 Surface의 CMO였으며 그는 이렇게하지 않았습니다. 하지 마십시오.”나는 … 괜찮 았습니다. 그러나 우리는 그것에 대해 좋은 시간을 보냈습니다.

NP : 올해 사람들이 집중하고 싶은 것은 무엇입니까? 경쟁자가 나올 것이기 때문입니다. 당신이 나올 때 당신의 경쟁사 중 2 세대를 맞을 것입니다. 내년에 사람들이이 장치에 대해 어떻게 생각하길 원하십니까?

사람들이 방금 배송 한 Surface PC와 같은 휴일 라인업에 대해 생각하기를 정말로 원합니다. 우리는 그 점을 매우 자랑스럽게 생각하며 사람들이 구매하기를 원합니다. 맞습니다.

다음 듀오. 나는 무엇보다도 자신에게 가장 흥미롭고 더 창의적이라고 생각하는 제품을 본다. 내가 밀어 붙일 곳입니다. I think this product is going to be there next year. If you’re not in a hurry, hang out and see what happens and what’s happening. It’s going to be all right. Take photos or do whatever it is you do on your phone today for a little bit longer, and then we’ll see if we can convince you that you can be more creative on this product.

NP: This is great, in the context of the last round of phone reviews where everyone was like, maybe keep your phone for 20 years. It’s good enough, right?

It’s funny, I haven’t read phone reviews. I don’t really look at other phones. I know that I take photos with my phone, like I take a lot of pictures. But I want to extend that. I told a story today. It was a real story, where you know how many times I start mail on my phone? And I move to my Surface.

Like simple mails or short mails or I’ve got to get a note out, sure, I use my phone as much as anybody. But when it gets to something I’ve got to be thinking through and editing and so forth, I think the world’s maybe ready, especially in this era of mobile creativity. So many people creating on the fly. It’s pretty inspiring.

Watching my kids blows my mind. But even them, they have to move to their Surface. And I just think, “Why don’t we get to that next spot?” I think this product does that.

NP: I’m very interested to see a form factor changes come because I think everything changes in that moment.

Yeah. I think we’ve been waiting for it. I think we’ve been waiting for it a little bit. And I think we’ve been saying for a long time, when the form factor is ready to change, we’ll be there. I think this is the time.

NP: Panos, thank you so much for joining us.

It was fun. It’s always a good time.

Read More Here: https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/3/20896114/microsoft-surface-duo-neo-android-event-panos-panay-interview-vergecast

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